WWII Veteran Transcript

Subject: Werner Kleeman

Interviewer: Bobby Allen Wintermute

Tape Number: 03 of 05

Interview Date: May 26th , 2009

Transcriber: Matthew McCann


Transcription Date: June 23rd, 2009



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Interviewer: Test, May 26th, Werner Kleeman Interview.

[RECORDING PAUSES]
[RECORDING RESUMES]

Interviewer: Well first before we begin I want to thank you for your 
hospitality.

Kleeman: Oh well, that’s I can’t empty, I can sit with an empty stomach 
so…

Interviewer: I, I don’t blame you, I can’t either so.  We were last 
meeting, we were talking about your training in the United States.

Kleeman: Yeah.

Interviewer: You had spoken about the Hillbilly Sergeants and the training 
and you had actually joined your regiment at that point.

Kleeman: Yeah.

Interviewer: Would you restate your unit, again?

Kleeman: You know me to state, what-

Interviewer: Regiment and Company.

Kleeman: Regiment, K Company of 22nd infantry.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: Yes-

Interviewer: Attached-

Kleeman: It’s what was called a line company, each regiment has three 
battalions and each battalion has three line companies and one what’s 
called heavy weapons company.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: They’re different from the line company, the line company are 
infantry fighting soldiers, the heavy weapons comes only in where there’s 
a problem.

Interviewer: Right.  And you again were attached to?

Kleeman: I was assigned to the front man of the line company.  The first 
man off the boat and go on shore.

Interviewer: Lucky You.

Kleeman: Yeah, that was my assignment till lucky break came when they 
found out I was talking German and they transferred me to division 
headquarters as an interpreter.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: That’s why I’m still here.

Interviewer: Yes.  Now we had talked about how you had made friends, you 
had met people in the army-

Kleeman: I met people, I met, in the line company was different they, 
they, they didn’t like me, I had three problem against me.  The first one 
I was a refugee, couldn’t hide the accent.  The second one I was a Jewish 
boy, those hillbillies that were in charge didn’t know what a Jew looks 
like, they thought Jews had to have horns, so that was the second problem 
and the third problem was I was I was a Yankee.  The Southern people don’t 
like Yankees, I don’t know whether you have ever traveled and know that or 
not, you know? Okay. So I had three strikes against me.  But the minute I 
got to division headquarters those strikes were wiped out.

Interviewer: Right, and you said that you made, met Sergeants that you 
respected, you met officers you respected.

Kleeman: Yeah it was a different life.

Interviewer: Right, talk us, take us from your training across the 
Atlantic Ocean.  When did you leave your training camp in the United 
States?

Kleeman: When I went to leave England for the United States?

Interviewer: When did you leave the United States for England?

Kleeman: January 14th I believe it was.

Interviewer: 1943?  '44?

Kleeman: '44.

Interviewer: Okay.

Kleeman: '44, we were late.  We only left forty-four January, we get there 
the end of January and we went right down to South Devon, it was not far 
from the English Channel, and we got more training.

Interviewer: Why do you think you were so late in traveling to Europe?

Kleeman: Well, the army has particular travel they can only transport so 
many at a time, and we were, we were shipped from Augusta to Fort Dixx, 
New Jersey and we were supposed to go to Africa.

Interviewer: In '44?

Kleeman: No that was in '43, summer of '43, we were supposed to go to 
Africa, and what the army always sent in advanced detail to make 
arrangements when the division comes, where to put them.

Interviewer: If you had gone to Africa you would have gone to Italy 
then as part of that invasion.

Kleeman: Well whatever.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: But the advanced detail had been sent to Africa.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: And after they were there, they were, they were sent back, there 
was no shipping, they couldn’t ship us, they had no room on the boats.

Interviewer: All the shipping was used for-

Kleeman: All the shipping was filled, and somewhere along the lines, 
somebody must have goofed and they, they decided they couldn’t ship us.  
No room, so the advanced detail came back from Africa.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: It didn’t use them over there to attach to other outfits they 
sent them back to Fort Dixx.

Interviewer: Did you know anybody in that advanced detail?

Kleeman: I knew the Colonel I worked for was in the advanced detail, he 
came back.

Interviewer: Did he tell you any, did he give you, did he speak at all 
about-

Kleeman: No he didn’t.

Interviewer: -In Africa or?

Kleeman: No he didn’t talk much about Africa.  Anyhow that’s how we, then 
from Fort Dixx they sent us down to Florida.  To the Gulf of Mexico, and 
we started and people’s training down there, September, October.  August, 
September, October, we spent three months down there, on a broken down 
ships out in the Gulf of Mexico.

Interviewer: What did you think of that?

Kleeman: Well, you had no choice a division was earmarked and they, they 
had no shipping to go to England yet, so they sent them to Florida for 
three months.

Interviewer: What kind of rumors were going around?

Kleeman: Rumors were that we were going to Europe, that was the only 
rumor.  What, where in Europe, nobody knew, and where we were going to, 
what we was planning for was no, nobody knew, it was all, everything was 
quiet.  But then when Florida was finished they already, we had to move, 
we had to move away from Florida, another division was supposed to be 
coming in and we moved Fort Checks in South Carolina for one month, 
waiting to come to New Jersey to load up the boats.  And the Army when 
they moved you it’s twenty-thousand men it’s six or eight special trains 
it’s all the equipment it’s a big, big undertaking.

Interviewer: Now, as you are training in Florida, for Amphibious Training 
were you still training as a mechanized unit or as an infantry unit.

Kleeman: No, we were, no we were trained, training as an infantry unit.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: The mechanized was left in New Jersey.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: The Half-tracks and the equipment was left in New Jersey, what 
they did with it we don’t know but we left in there.

Interviewer: Right so-

Kleeman: It didn’t with, I didn’t move with us Florida and not to South 
Carolina.

Interviewer: So had become an infantry division.

Kleeman: It was a, we were regular infantry and we had been earmarked to 
make the invasion.

Interviewer: Was anyone, did anyone have concerns about maybe going to 
the Pacific instead of Europe?  Was there any talk about going to the 
Pacific instead of Europe?

Kleeman: No, No, there was no talk, we were pretty sure we were going to 
Europe.

Interviewer: Okay.

Kleeman: That we were not, we were not afraid of the Pacific.

Interviewer: Okay.  Now-

Kleeman: The Pacific was if you had your choice you rather go to Europe 
than the Jungle.

Interviewer: Right, right.

Kleeman: She’s listening.

Unknown: I am.

Interviewer: You weren’t born then.

Unknown: No.

Interviewer: Your father was in it?

Unknown: No my grandfather.

Interviewer: Your grandfather.

Unknown: Yeah.

Kleeman: Well I’m a grandfather yeah.  That makes sense [laughs].

Interviewer: So you’ve already trained in the South before this.

Kleeman: Well, they only had little boat, they had nothing, the navy only 
put, they had stuff they couldn’t use.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: Little boats and they were second-class.

Interviewer: Nothing like the-

Kleeman: Nothing like was used in the invasion.  Because they didn’t waste 
time to put boats into the Gulf of Mexico and we were, we were, training 
on Thanksgiving Day, and the storm kicked up, and some of the boats turned 
over.

Interviewer: Wow.

Kleeman: And the guys had to hang on to the boats not to, not, to think, 
they didn’t have life preservers, nothing for us.

Interviewer: Wow.  Was anybody killed in that or?

Kleeman: There were few guys drowned, but that they expect so.  They sent 
the bodies home.

Interviewer: So in all your training in the United States, did you see, 
were you, was your unit any visited by anybody important or anybody with 
the USO?  Any, any, did you see any USO shows, any, any actors or singers 
or?

Kleeman: No, no, in Florida nobody came, first of all that was an off 
track, off track camp, it was all temporary, the barracks, if there were 
barracks they sand floors and the rattlesnakes used to crawl across at 
night and also, that was worse then a jungle.

Interviewer: Wow.  What about when you got to New Jersey?

Kleeman: New Jersey was good.  New Jersey was a good climate it was humid 
and but in New Jersey they took us out two weeks for maneuver down in the 
Wildwood area, and down in those sticks you had mosquitos biggest in the 
United States we had to walk around all day with mosquito nets over our 
helmet.

Interviewer: Wow.

Kleeman: Couldn’t go without it, you were bitten up, so it wasn’t the 
greatest pleasure.

Interviewer: Being in New Jersey did you have a chance to contact your 
family?  When you were in New Jersey?

Kleeman: You had weekends off.

Interviewer: Did you visit your family?

Kleeman: Yeah, I come to New York, I come to Philidelphia, it was a 
pretty good life.

Interviewer: What was, what was New York like in war time, in 1943.

Kleeman: Huh?  What was?

Interviewer: What was New York like in wartime?

Kleeman: What was New York like?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: It was a good city.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: We came here for dances Saturday night we, some boys went to USO.  
It was, I had family here so it was not so, not so hard.  It was pretty 
good life.  But you knew it wouldn’t last.

Interviewer: Was there rationing at that point?  Was there rationing at 
that point?

Kleeman: Gasoline rationing.  I don’t know if there was food rationing, we 
had our meals at the camp so.

Interviewer: Well when you went home I meant.

Kleeman: No there was enough to eat.

Interviewer: Yeah?

Kleeman: There was no problem.  As far as I remember.

Interviewer: How was the food in the army at that point?

Kleeman: The army uses food wherever they can buy, they plan it a month 
ahead.  They have dieticians that lay out the menus and then they buy 
and supply and ship it in accordingly.

Interviewer: Was it good for or?

Kleeman: It was natural, healthy food.  Let's put it this way.

Interviewer: You mentioned of course the problems of being Jewish in the 
army was it possible to keep Kosher?

Kleeman: You, you had to eat whatever they put in front of you, you 
couldn’t, if you refused it, you had nothing to eat.

Interviewer: So you couldn’t go Kosher?

Kleeman: No you couldn’t refuse it.  Well more or less you were allowed 
to eat what you needed, so anyhow, but the food was good, the food was 
basic, you know, nothing fancy.  You know when most of the hillbillies 
were cooks and they don’t know how to cook [laughs], she’s laughing.  
Don’t, don’t join them, it’s different now, they have McDonald’s and 
everything else but in those days, whatever was put in front of you 
eat it or don’t eat it that’s all.  Was all basic, nothing exciting.

Interviewer: What ship did you leave-

Kleeman: It was a British ship.  Small ship we had about the Regiment and 
some, it must have been about ten-thousand people aboard ship.

Interviewer: On a small ship?

Kleeman: Huh?

Interviewer: It was a small ship.

Kleeman: Small ship, yeah.

Interviewer: How many of you were-

Kleeman: The division was on three small ships, split up, each ship had a 
regiment and then attached troops so it was, they were overcrowded, the 
ships were overcrowded, the British were cooking they were feeding and 
they can only feed us two meals a day, we, got a breakfast and a dinner, 
we didn’t, no lunch.

Interviewer: How many people were, what was the sleeping arrangements like 
on the ship?  On the ship how sleeping-

Kleeman: Sleeping, sleeping?  I was way down in the baggage room of the 
ship.  Two hundred people in one big room, triple, triple bunks and very 
crowded and one exit, if a mine would have blown up the ship we would 
have all gone under.

Interviewer: Wow.

Kleeman: And one of the, and the exit was a ladder going up, not a 
stairway, it was a baggage room, they used everything to put troops on.  
When the dining room closed at night, they hung up the mats on the 
ceiling for people to sleep in.

Interviewer: Wow.

Kleeman: They were sleeping all over they were, overcrowded but the army 
had no mercy, they had to get these people over to England.

Interviewer: It was winter when you went, right?  It was winter when you 
left?  It was in the winter?

Kleeman: Oh, January!

Interviewer: Yeah, how was the weather on the trip over?

Kleeman: The weather was pretty calm, the sea was pretty calm it was not 
a storm.

Interviewer: Good thing.

Kleeman: But there wasn’t enough room to go out on deck much neither.  
Everything was blacked out, you couldn’t smoke outside, you couldn’t 
aboard ship, actually.  It was, it was like being in prison.

Interviewer: How many days?

Kleeman: Twelve days.

Interviewer: Did you join up with the convoy?

Kleeman: Yeah.  Bout fifty ship convoy.

Interviewer: Who-

Kleeman: Destroyers going around, the first thousand miles the airplanes 
from America protect you, the last thousand miles that were, the airplanes 
from Britain came out to protect the convoy.

Interviewer: Wow.

Kleeman: But we had no, no, no warning of Submarines around us, well you 
know they go in zig-zag convoys anyhow, each convoy goes a different route 
so the Germans if they find one, they wouldn’t find the next one.

Interviewer: I mean clearly, torpedos and U-Boats were-

Kleeman: U-Boats yes.  That the only danger they had.  The German airplanes 
couldn’t reach us.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: But the U-Boats and mines.  But in the big ocean, I don’t think 
they laid mine out there, they only lied mines at a narrow part or at the 
entrance of a harbor.

Interviewer: Right.  Right.  So lets bring you ashore then, you said you 
landed in Britain, uneventful, twelve day trip.

Kleeman: Yeah, then, and then we unloaded in Liverpool, and that took a 
day and half, because you can’t unload five hundred or a thousand people 
in half an hour, we did not need a passport to go into England [laughs].

Interviewer: No.  No, your passport was right there, yeah.

Kleeman: One guy on the twelfth regiment he jumped overboard in the 
harbor.

Interviewer: Why?

Kleeman: I guess he didn’t want to fight or something he jumped overboard, 
they couldn’t save him.

Interviewer: So he drowned?

Kleeman: Yeah.  Well there’s luck there wasn’t more.  You don’t know when 
you have twenty thousand people and all of a sudden they’re, what can I 
say, they are confronted with life or death.  You don’t know how people 
crack up.

Interviewer: What was your impression of Britain, upon arriving, you had 
been to England before, obviously you were there in nineteen thirty-nine, 
but coming back to England, what was your impression of it?

Kleeman: Well for me, it was a little homecoming but I was not allowed to 
leave, the area to go and visit my friends in London.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: They had restricted us, there was not allowed, and you couldn’t 
travel without a pass because the military police would pick you up on a 
train or bus or anything, so when you don’t get it you can’t travel, so 
I was not allowed to visit my friends.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: Before I, one time I was in a hospital and outside was a toll, 
telephone booth, so I went in and I dialed my friends number and he 
answered and I told him I’m here Devon I cannot come and see you, but I 
just want to say hello to you.  So that was the end.

Interviewer: Well when you were in Britain the war was just beginning, 
in 1939.

Kleeman: Well, when I was in Britain the first time, the war started.

Interviewer: Now you’re in England of 1944.

Kleeman: That was, the war was full, in full swing.

Interviewer: Did you see visible signs of damage in Liverpool?

Kleeman: Oh yeah, well I, Liverpool we went from the ship to the rail 
tracks and we didn’t see much but it was damaged.  But we saw damage 
after we got into the Southern England.  I, used to go on a Sunday on 
the bus to Plymouth, and sit outside the harbor and half of the city 
was destroyed.

Interviewer: Wow.

Kleeman: It’s, and the other cities around where we were they were all 
in good shape they weren’t destroyed, they were smaller towns.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: But London was badly hurt.

Interviewer: The Blitz was still going on, the Germans were still bombing, 
at that late.

Kleeman: Oh, the war, the air war was going on.  We were on a maneuver 
and the German planes came over and bombed us.  And one of them was shot 
down and the pilot was killed but the engineer came out alive and I 
interviewed him.

Interviewer: Really?

Kleeman: Yeah.

Interviewer: What did you find out from interviewing him?

Kleeman: He came from an airport two miles from my home village.

Interviewer: Really?

Kleeman: Really.  But then the British came, and we are not allowed to 
talk to them, because they told us any, any enemy caught in England 
belongs to the British, not to the Americans [laughs].  Politics!

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: Even in war time they know politics!

Interviewer: We know of course that by this time many British men are in 
uniform, right and?

Kleeman: Well the men in uniform we didn’t see much.

Interviewer: Did you see many British men at all, period?  Were there a 
lot of young...

Kleeman: No, we did not have contact with British, we had one officer 
assigned to us to help us around the area, if there were any problems.

Interviewer: But even in the small villages? 

Kleeman: Small villages, the young men  were all gone.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: Only old men around and ladies.

Interviewer: Well one of the stories about America in Britain in the war 
was that Americans had made more money-

Kleeman: There were all chocolate and cigarettes and money, they were all 
millionaires!

Interviewer: Americans had no shortage of dates is what we hear.

Kleeman: You hear what I said?

Interviewer: Yes, I know.

Kleeman: They all came to the town as big millionares.

Interviewer: Did you have a chance to meet any British women or not?

Kleeman: I didn’t no, I didn’t me, I didn’t go out that much.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: I didn’t, I didn’t go drinking in a pub, and that was also, you 
know the British they every two hours they close up for an hour that, I 
didn’t, I didn’t experience that.

Interviewer: No, did any of your friends?

Kleeman: A few, a few that went at night, sometimes when they found a 
neighborhood pub someplace, whatever, I wasn’t a drinking man.

Interviewer: Were you given warning about the British women?  Were you, 
did the army warn you against-

Kleeman: Well they weren’t that many British women around.  Few of the 
fellows played up with them but, I wasn’t interested.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: Cause of course, there’s also the fear of prostitution.

Interviewer: Yes.

Kleeman: As well.  Whatever, what can I tell you, so that’s happened.

Interviewer: What about the children?

Kleeman: They only were there what, five months?  And that, that time went 
very fast.

Interviewer: What about the children?

Kleeman: And it, it was much restricted, that we couldn’t leave the area.

Interviewer: What about the British children?  Did you see them at all?

Kleeman: The British children lined up along the highway ‘Chocolate!  
Chocolate!  Chocolate!  Gum?  Any gum?’  They were starved.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: They had nothing extra so as far food is concerned.

Interviewer: Yeah you mentioned that they’re starved and had few extras, 
I mean were there any, did you think, or did others have any thoughts 
about how Britain was going to survive the war?

Kleeman: Well, we saw what was going on, the British were suffering.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: And they had food problems, and they had all kinds of problems, 
but they were brave.  They suffered a lot from the bombardments, the 
cities were hit very bad.

Interviewer: By May '44, May 1944 the buzzbombs began, the V-1 rockets. 

Kleeman: They didn’t come that time, they came later, after we were in-

Interviewer: Not, not the big rockets but the buzz bombs.

Kleeman: The V-Bombs came about, I would say, maybe October forty-four, 
that’s when they started sending them over.

Interviewer: Right, the rockets.

Kleeman: They used to cross us where we were stationed they were all aimed 
for England, they weren’t aimed for the front lines, so we used to waved 
to them ‘Go! Go! Go!’ 

Interviewer: Wow.  Wow.

Kleeman: I, I was hit by one, in October '44.

Interviewer: Really?

Kleeman: I was hit by one, I, my colonel asked me he wants to make a 
dinner for his friends, the officers where we were stationed, he says to 
me ‘Can you get me steaks?’  I said ‘Yeah, I can get you steaks.’  So I 
drove, on the way to Malmady about ten miles and I remember seeing the 
butcher store so I went in, and that was the area that used to be one, 
one generation Germans another generation, French, no it wasn’t, it was 
on the German border so anyhow I got in and I got fifteen or sixteen 
steaks, course they cut, they don’t cut the steaks like we cut them here.  
They take any beef and cut it but whether it’s the prime of the, of the 
cow or not, they don’t know, whatever.  They ate them, that much I know.  
And, and we had a, we were in [?] and they had a woman who cooked and she 
did them on a, not open fire, but an open, open, pan.  She made a pretty 
good steak then when she made French-fried potatoes which the army, never, 
never bought or sold or could cook.   So they were eating a good meal.  
And while I was in that, after I came out of the butcher one of the bombs 
came down about three hundred yards away.  It lifted my Jeep up.  But I 
was lucky, I was able, didn’t blow a tire or anything, I was able to go 
back to my division. 

Interviewer: Wow.

Kleeman: But that was as close as I had with one.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: But you didn’t know when they were coming.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: Because by the time you heard the motor, they were gone already.  
So but that I was lucky, because if it hit my Jeep I wouldn’t be here.

Interviewer: While you’re in training, in England, did you see anybody 
from other service branches?

Kleeman: Commited?

Interviewer: Did you meet anybody from other Service Branches?  Like Air 
Corps, Navy.

Kleeman: We met, no, we met, we worked with the Navy, the Navy, the Boats 
and the sailors we had a lot with them, because we went out on two 
different maneuvers and always had to be aboard ship, so we had a lot of 
relationship with the Navy boys.

Interviewer: How was those relationships?

Kleeman: It was good, it was also like everything else overcrowded, and of 
course they tried to accommodate, they didn’t feed us, we always had 
emergency rations with us, they only supplied black coffee for us.

Interviewer: Okay.  One second.

[Recording Pauses]

Interviewer: Starting I guess, in April and May, they began their real 
training for the landings.

Kleeman: April-May was, was a big training.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: Amphibious training out in the Channel on the British Beach.  And 
they had evacuated all the people who were living in that area, they took 
them away, because they were using live ammunition so nobody was allowed 
to be living there, even their animals were evacuated.  It was like a dead 
beach.

Interviewer: Do you recall where it was exactly?

Kleeman: Sapton Sands.

Interviewer: Sapton Sands?

Kleeman: Sapton Sands, yes, that’s what the area was called.

Interviewer: How many-

Kleeman: That’s where we were bombed with the airplanes.

Interviewer: How many divisions trained with you, or was it just your 
division.

Kleeman: Only one at a time.  They didn’t have more room to train more 
then one division at, that took a couple of, a week or two at least.

Interviewer: So they would bring you in for a week, and you would train.

Kleeman: Yeah, and then of course the, the boats had to reload with fuel 
to prepare for another division.  But they didn’t train too many because 
they only trained divisions that were used for D-Day, the other way with, 
the other divisions didn’t get that training.

Interviewer: Right.  Did you know the other divisions getting the 
training?  Did you know what they were?

Kleeman: I didn’t, we didn’t know where they were or anything.  But the 
army does nothing without practice, training.  And since they never had 
an invasion, with, in the enemy territory, they tried to make a practice 
of it.  That’s when we lost two boats with eight hundred people.

Interviewer: How did that happen?

Kleeman: The German E-boats from Cherbourg sneaked up they didn’t even 
know they were sinking those two boats.  It happened.

Interviewer: Yeah, it’s a pretty famous incident.

Kleeman: And we had life-preservers which they were never taught us how 
to use them, so when you get a belt, you wear it around your waist, 
right?  And everybody wore it around your waist, and that’s why they, 
half of the 800 went down right away, because they claimed the belt was 
only made to wear around the armpits, then they would keep the body up 
and down in the water.  Around the waist it would sink them.  And the 
admiral who was in charge must have forgotten to send word out how to use 
it.  And after about three when the war was in Normandy, he killed 
himself.

Interviewer: Wow.

Kleeman: Admiral Moon.  I guess he didn’t want to be brought up on 
charges.

Interviewer: Were you there at this, at the day of that, this boat 
sinking?  Were you there that day?

Kleeman: Yeah, we were a few boats away.

Interviewer: Did you see it?

Kleeman: No.

Interviewer: You heard it though, right?

Kleeman: Well we were right away was told ‘You never seen anything, 
silence, you gotta keep quiet, nothing happened.’

Interviewer: Wow.

Kleeman: And they buried the dead ones with a bulldozer.  Right there.  
They claimed they didn’t even tell Eisenhower that it happened.  I…

Interviewer: Yeah.

[RECORDING PAUSES]

Kleeman: We lost more men in that maneuver then when we landed on D-Day.

Interviewer: Yeah, wow.  What was it, the general feeling in the, 
amongst the soldiers about this amphibious training, I mean did it feel 
secure?

Kleeman: There was a tension.

Interviewer: Yeah?

Kleeman: A certain tension, you didn’t, you didn’t show fear to your 
friends or anybody, you kept it to yourself but there was a high tension.  
It was, you didn’t know what would happen.

Interviewer: Right, and you knew something was getting closer.  You knew 
something was getting closer.

Kleeman: Oh you knew you were earmarked to land on the first day.  You 
didn’t know what to expect.  They were scared that the German use tear 
gas, so, all, every man landing on D-Day had to wear an impregnated 
uniform on top of the regular uniform which would have protected your 
body against the tear gas.  Your shoes were impregnated, they had 
special equipment made, it was all air tight, chemical treated.

Interviewer: Wow, and extra weight too.

Kleeman: Yeah well, you, you, you, the didn’t know whether the Germans 
would use gas or not.

Interviewer: How much were you expected to carry, on your pack?  How 
much weight were you expected to carry on landing?

Kleeman: How much?

Interviewer: Weight.

Kleeman: Weight?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: Did you carry?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: I didn’t have to carry much because we were on a truck.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: And our truck came in the first day, we came in on, with our 
truck.

Interviewer: But the average infantryman, anyone in the rifle company?

Kleeman: Oh you had to have a rifle, a gas mask, you had your backpack, 
but you most of it on a truck.

Interviewer: Right, so you were, you were free of that?

Kleeman: Yeah, I was pretty easy.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: But, but the truck was loaded.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: Truck had everything that you, well the officers were allowed to 
leave a footlocker behind that would come in later.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: But the personal equipment they brought in the first day.

Interviewer: Yeah. 

Kleeman: It was some stuff was not needed, but it was controlled what was 
allowed to be loaded on a truck.

Interviewer: When did you get the word that you were being posted to 
Headquarters?  When did you learn you were being posted to headquarters?

Kleeman: When did you learn?

Interviewer: When did you discover you were being posted to the 
headquarters company.

Kleeman: When I was, for what?

Interviewer: When were you sent to the headquarters company?

Kleeman: Oh it was in January, February, probably in March.  In March, 
middle of March maybe.  Just before those two big maneuvers were started.

Interviewer: Just before that.

Kleeman: Yeah.  So you-

Interviewer: And then you knew something was cooking.  Because you were 
in headquarters did you know something before other people?

Kleeman: No, no.  We knew very little in headquarters, even the officers 
knew very little.  There was, was kept very strong, and there were 
certain rooms where only certain people could go in, they had to have 
special passes.  Where all the maps were stored and everything, it was 
well controlled, no there was nothing, you couldn’t break in to anything, 
nothing like that, the organization was very strong, for secrecy, they 
were afraid that the Germans had spies running around the area and they 
might send messages home, and sink half of the fleet, but we never caught 
any, we never, we never experienced that, anybody caught a spy or anything.

Interviewer: Listening to the radio, before the invasion, did you ever 
hear the German propaganda?

Kleeman: We had radios.

Interviewer: No Radios?

Kleeman: No, radios, no, no radios.  All we could get maybe a British 
newspaper, we had no radios.

Interviewer: Okay, not even in your barracks?

Kleeman: No, no, no such, nothing, we were kept in the dark.

Interviewer: Okay.

Kleeman: No communication.

Interviewer: Blackout.

Kleeman: Even, even the mail probably they didn’t distribute for the last 
two weeks or something.

Interviewer: Well lets bring us to the last week, the week starting June 
first, you know, the last couple of days.

Kleeman: Yes.

Interviewer: What was your routine, describe to me what happened, 
beginning from June first up until the morning of June sixth.

Kleeman: Well, we were, the last two weeks you get sent to another camp 
which would used to be preparation for loading up and there you had you 
had to change your American money, you had to give it up and get invasion 
money, and you had to get some other things all straightened out and 
certain equipment you didn’t need you had to turn in and so you were kept 
busy for two weeks.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: It was all well organized.

Interviewer: Busy I’m sure, but with plenty of time for rumors too.

Kleeman: They had different groups who run the kitchen so your own cooks 
weren’t cooking anymore, it was all outsiders that brought in, and, and, 
certain fellows who weren’t allowed to land on D-Day, they were taken 
away and put into the rear, they, they came in about the, about a week 
and half later.

Interviewer: Who wouldn’t be allowed to land on-

Kleeman: Well certain cooks weren’t needed, and other people weren’t 
needed so they were sent to the rear, some Jeeps were not allowed on 
D-Day they were pushed in the rear to be brought in later, my Jeep was 
not allowed on D-Day so I didn’t have to waterproof it, but it was all 
well, well organized.

Interviewer: So-

Kleeman: And it’s amazing really nobody did a suicide.  Nobody complained, 
because once you were assigned to the division you were part of it.  You 
couldn’t say ‘I don’t like to go I want to go, I want to go to another 
division’ doesn’t exist.

Interviewer: You said you knew J.D. Salinger, you knew Jerry Salinger.  
Right?  You knew Salinger.  Was a friend of yours. J.D. Salinger.

Kleeman: Yeah he was with me.

Interviewer: He was with you.

Kleeman: I, my same outfit.

Interviewer: What was he thinking.

Kleeman: He was doing like everything else but he had to waterproof his 
Jeep.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: His Jeep came in on D-Day.  Because he was in special security.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: So he may have had to travel around so he brought, his Jeep 
came in on D-Day.  Took him about, close to two weeks to waterproof it, 
I watched him.

Interviewer: He had to do it.

Kleeman: I watched him doing it.  I didn’t have to do it so I had time 
to watch him.

Interviewer: The last three days, I mean how do soldiers pass the time, 
it’s like a hurry up and wait.

Kleeman: Oh, you wrote another letter, you do this, it was not boring it 
was just normal life and don’t forget we loaded up about four days before 
D-Day so you were kept busy.

Interviewer: What were you thinking, were you beginning to feel worried, 
afraid?

Kleeman: Just, just you just hope and prayed that so, you can’t think, 
you know you have to be hard, you have to be there it was a strong 
feeling, you know, whether you’re going to make it or not.

Interviewer: By June 4th, you kind of knew the size of the armada.

Kleeman: You knew on the 3rd already, June 3rd you saw the amount of 
boats and everything.

Interviewer: So you knew.

Kleeman: Yeah.  But the weather turns very bad and you couldn’t, you 
couldn’t have landed that day because, the boats would have turned over 
or something.

Interviewer: So you never even boarded the-

Kleeman: So they stayed calm, they stayed on the channel sailing up and 
down in a circle.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: But then on a, I think the night of the fourth they made the 
decision to land on the Sixth.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: Eisenhower-

Interviewer: But even then they were worried about the weather.

Kleeman: Yeah, Eisenhower made the decision to land, because if they 
didn’t land that day they would have had to turn around the boats to come 
England to put on fuel, they were starting to run low on fuel.

Interviewer: Right.  Was anybody having trouble keeping their food down 
at this point?

Kleeman: No, nobody, nobody complained, everybody was very low key, we 
started to eat the K-Rations that the packages and so was very low key, 
no, no, complaint didn’t help so nobody really complained.

Interviewer: Were there any last minute attempts to get out of it?  That 
you heard of?

Kleeman: No, no.

Interviewer: Nobody cleaning their rifle or-

Kleeman: No, no, nobody would have been allowed to transfer or anything 
like, couldn’t do that.

Interviewer: No desertions?

Kleeman: Very controlled.

Interviewer: No attempts to desert that you heard of?  No desertion 
attempts.  No attempted desertions?

Kleeman: No?

Interviewer: No attempts to desert.

Kleeman: No, no, no.  No attempts, no attempts no, everybody was brave.  
That’s was made to success.

Interviewer: Night of June 5th.  The Night of June 5th.  When do you know 
you’re going?

Kleeman: June fifth the night, you stayed awake you listened to the 
airplanes were flying over you don’t forget it got daylight, it got dark 
over there very late, it was daylight till eleven o’clock at night.

Interviewer: Did you hear the paratroopers going over?

Kleeman: Yeah, you hear planes going over and in the morning on the sixth, 
about five o’clock there, the battleships started shooting.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: That’s when, when the real McCoy’s started.

Interviewer: What did you feel about the Germans on the other side.

Kleeman: Well you didn’t know how way they were responding, you didn’t 
know.

Interviewer: Did you have any personal feelings about them?

Kleeman: Nothing.  You couldn’t.  You didn’t know anything.

Interviewer: Yeah, did you want to-

Kleeman: No, nothing, nothing.  Couldn’t find anyone, you couldn’t there 
were, none of them were captured during those days, they were, there was 
no German boats around, nothing it was very calm.

Interviewer: Well you landed Utah Beach. What time did you land?

Kleeman: I land about five o’clock in the afternoon.

Interviewer: So you’re well behind-

Kleeman: Walked off the boat yeah.  Was already, calm, still the beach, 
the beach was still getting shell fire.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: But we managed to cross it. I saw one truck was blown up.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: Because every truck was loaded with ammunition and other things 
and the, if something hit it would be an explosion.

Interviewer: Utah was a pretty quiet beach.

Kleeman: Utah was the easy one, yeah, we were lucky.

Interviewer: Cause you had just the gentle slopes going up, right.

Kleeman: Little retaining wall but that was all busted open it was gentle, 
if you got off like a fairy to bring you there you could drive your truck 
off and head inland. But there was only one causeway.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: So that all the traffic on that causeway was one way going into 
France.

Interviewer: You get off the boat, what are you doing, when you get off 
the boat?  What are you, what’s your orders.

Kleeman: You get on your truck, and hope the truck will move, our truck 
failed. Our trucks was stuck in the water.  But the driver got it started 
and he came ashore and we all jumped on and left.

Interviewer: Where were you bound for?  Where were you going?

Kleeman: Inland.

Interviewer: Did you know, was there a specific village?

Kleeman: You don’t know nothing, you just follow-

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: -all traffic, there’s a, there was one guy on the beach that had 
a beard and big man, he was called ‘The Beachmaster’ and he had to push 
everybody off the beach because there was always boats coming in.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: He needed the room so he was a, he had a [mega]phone and he 
yelled ‘Get off the beach, Get off the beach!’

Interviewer: Nobody [?] him.

Kleeman: Nobody was fighting him.

Interviewer: Now Utah again was a quiet beach.

Kleeman: Yeah that was a quiet beach.

Interviewer: There were some casualties on Utah.  There were some 
casualties on Utah.

Kleeman: I said we went to cross without problems.

Interviewer: Did you see any?

KLeeman: I saw a few dead ones, they were already in a little ditch, they 
had, there was, the group, the black people who were part of the, they 
call grave registration, they were in already and they made a ditch [?] 
to put the dead ones away so when the soldiers came ashore they didn’t 
want to see dead bodies right away.

Interviewer: Right.  But you saw them.

[END OF SIDE A]
[BEGINNING OF SIDE B]

Interviewer: You mentioned seeing African-Americans, black soldier, from 
grave registration.

Kleeman: Yeah.

Interviewer: Not many people know that there were black soldiers at 
D-Day.

Kleeman: No, they, I don’t know if they knew what they were going to land 
there or not, but they were there.

Interviewer: Yeah, did you see other black soldiers working on Utah.

Kleeman: I saw them walking around, yes, they cleaned up, there was no 
dead bodies laying around, they had them in a little ditch. That was their 
job.

Interviewer: Did you see any dead Germans on the road in?

Kleeman: Germans?  I didn’t see that, that afternoon, I think it was at 
night, I captured one, I forget whether it was the first night or the 
second night, after we got into an area I went on a little highway to 
patrol, and one of them came out of the bushes, German soldier, and he 
was ready to surrender and-

Interviewer: Young or old?  Was he young or old?

Kleeman: He was old, he was a Czech, he wasn’t a real German.  He was 
Czechoslovakian.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: So he must have laid low in the wooded low wooded area and 
waited for practically darkness to come out, so the other Germans 
wouldn’t shoot him.

Interviewer: What did he say to you.  When he knew you were German.

Kleeman: Oh he told he want, he’s surrendering, I told him wait I’ll call 
the military police and they’ll take him away.

Interviewer: He was relieved?

Kleeman: He was relieved yeah.  He save his life.

Interviewer: Yeah.  Was he-

Kleeman: But the real Germans wouldn’t have done that.

Interviewer: Was he surprised that a German had taken him prisoner in an 
American-

Kleeman: No, he was happy.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: The real Germans wouldn’t have done that.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: They were fanatics.

Interviewer: Well at Utah  you come up against, a real of mishmash of 
units, I mean there’s Poles, there’s Russians, there’s Czechs in German 
uniforms, they were, they were like draftees.

Kleeman: Well they didn’t have that many, I don’t think the German Army 
had that many Russians or something.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: They had Czechoslovakians who spoke German.

Interviewer: Right.  Let’s pause.

[Recording pauses then resumes]

Kleeman: Oh you know, you don’t even watch it.

Interviewer: I, I watch it but I don’t pay, I-

Kleeman: You don’t cry, you don’t cry?

Interviewer: See no evil.  Well we were talking about Poles-

Kleeman: Don’t laugh.  We had a Colonel, the one who was to Africa and 
came back, the wife had to send him a stocksheet every week.

Interviewer: So he could keep up with it.

Kleeman: I guess so.

Interviewer: That’s funny.

Kleeman: He was a lawyer, a big loafer.  You see, when you fight a war 
the mind works also on your stocks.

Interviewer: Oh yeah.  You got to come home to something.  So you said 
that there was more Czechs that were there, cause the histories also 
talk about Ukrainians, Estonians, Poles.

Kleeman: We didn’t have so many in uniform, over in that area they had 
mostly German divisions who had, the Germans had been fighting in Russia 
and so on, but we didn’t find so many foreigners.

Interviewer: Okay.

Kleeman: We found more later on, that they had women, who was like slaves.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: But not to fighting the war, they were different.

Interviewer: Different groups.

Kleeman: Different groups, different people.  They were mostly Russian 
women, they stole them and brought them back and used them as slaves.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: Pushing off the beach, I mean you, you almost immediately, in 
that part of France, you see the hedgerows.  The Hedgerows everything 
was beautiful farms.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: Yeah.  Farms were beautiful.

Interviewer: But what’s the, what was the danger of the Hedgerow 
country.  What was the problem with the hedgerow country.

Kleeman: Whether the Americans didn’t know them.  They’re about this high 
and very strong, shrubs growing over and short on top, short shrubs and 
roots and holding together, you couldn’t dig through them, they became a 
big problem, and the Germans were digging in behind them, and go down and 
put covers over their holes it caused a lot of death and a lot of misery, 
till about, I would say about, three, four weeks later that the Americans 
really woke up and they used the tank, and put a blade in front of the 
tank, and the tank was able to push through a hedgerow.

Interviewer: Right. Were you, were you involved in any of the fighting in 
the hedgerow at all or? 

Kleeman: No, I wasn’t involved I was lucky.

Interviewer: Yeah, yeah.
 
Kleeman: But I saw the hedgerows, and I saw what was going on.  That, no 
matter how many pictures they took they could never identify it on an a 
real photograph.

Interviewer: Right.  They were that good at hiding.

Kleeman: They didn’t realize how they could have missed it.  And they 
didn’t, no Frenchman explained to them neither and it didn’t show on any 
map.

Interviewer: You have to wonder if they asked the right Frenchmen.

Kleeman: It’s just, it was just a new experience for the Americans.

Interviewer: Right.  Well it slows the-

Kleeman: Very Expense.

Interviewer: It slows everything down because you can’t drive right out 
of the beach.

Kleeman: Yeah, no, it was very expensive, very, very treacherous and the 
Germans were ahead of us, they had it as a defense it help them more 
then it helped us.

Interviewer: Well what was Fourth Division's objective, what was your, 
what was your primary objective after landing?

Kleeman: After landing?

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: To fight into Cherbourg.

Interviewer: Go into Cherbourg?   Which was up here, so you were going 
way around and up?

Kleeman: Right.  About twenty miles up.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: But they needed the deep sea harbor.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: To bring in equipment and troop ships.  They couldn’t land troop 
ships or anything on the beach because you have clear water for big boats 
to land.

Interviewer: Didn’t they try to make harbors on the beach?  Didn’t the 
British try to make a harbor on the beach?

Kleeman: Did the-

Interviewer: British try to make a harbor on the beach?

Kleeman: No. 

Interviewer: They called it the Mullberries.

Kleeman: Those, there was temporary harbors.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: They needed them but it wasn’t, it wasn’t enough, it couldn’t 
dock large boats on them.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: The ocean going boats you couldn’t get near it.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: They had to reload in England to the small drafts and so on, 
that’s why they needed Cherbourg harbor in the worst way.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: That may have been the reason they landed in Utah beach because 
it was closest to Cherbourg.

Interviewer: Right, right.  Did you, so you weren’t involved in the 
fighting for St. Lo then?  Were you active, there were two focus there 
was St. Lo and [?].

Kleeman: Was an American pride to fight and conquer it, but it cost a lot 
money, a lot of men.

Interviewer: Did you, were you-

Kleeman: The Germans were very strong, it was a trapping point, five 
roads into the that area.

Interviewer: Including to Cherbourg right?

Kleeman: Whatever, it was a expensive, expensive area.

Interviewer: Were you involved in that?

Kleeman: No. I was, I got this, before St. Lo.

Interviewer: Okay.

Kleeman: Yeah.  When I, in August when I went to the hospital to get 
myself a checkup and I came back to the division and I used from the 
first army I went into communications and I said to the guy ‘I need a 
ride to the fourth division’ and he says ‘I’ll take you, I’m flying that 
little airplane, the  two seater’ So I flew with him, he says to me ‘I 
want to take you over St. Lo’ I says ‘I don’t want to see it.’ 
[laughter]

Interviewer: You heard about it at some point.

Kleeman: I wasn’t that curious.

Interviewer: Lot of, a lot of French people were bitter about St. Lo 
afterwards.

Kleeman: Well, St. Lo was like a ruin, I mean the Americans were shooting 
at it continuously.  Of course they were bitter, it was their important 
town.

Interviewer: It was a home.  Yeah.

Kleeman: But the Germans were in there.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: The Americans lost a lot of good men there, but the Americans 
were stubborn, when the General wanted something he ordered it and he 
didn’t give up till he got what he wanted.

Interviewer: No matter how many men?

Kleeman: No matter how many men is right.  And how equipment, how many 
ammunition, how many artillery, he just, he wanted us, the did this in 
Italy with that one, mountain and hill there.  There did in Hertgann 
Forest.  They did it St Lo too.

Interviewer: Yeah. 

Kleeman: And those Generals, they were their own bosses whatever they 
wanted to do, Eisenhower let them do it.

Interviewer: Yeah.  What about the, you mentioned of course the Germans 
were very stubborn, very stiff fighters.

Kleeman: The Germans were fanatics.  They were brainwashed not to give up, 
they were brainwashed to fight for the less drop of blood and they did.

Interviewer: Yeah because you were up against, if you’re going to 
Cherbourg, you were fighting infantry divisions.

Kleeman: They were with their back to the wall and they fought to the 
last, practically last man, ‘till they, the only ones that surrendered 
were out in the harbor fortifications, but the ones on land, they were 
fighting to the last minute.

Interviewer: Were you present at the fall of Cherbourg?  Were you 
present at the fall of Cherbourg?

Kleeman: Yeah, I was in Cherbourg, right away, I was in my Jeep, I was in 
very early and I checked myself, I couldn’t talk French, so I checked 
myself into the German military hospital.  I was thinking that the 
fanatics put on a bandage and act as wounded so they would be left alone 
and they eventually might be shipped out as a wounded soldier.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: But couldn’t find anyone like that.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: No, I stayed there two hours and the smell of the sick people 
was so bad I had to leave.

Interviewer: Was it because-

Kleeman: I went to the Atlantic Hotel where the division had it’s 
headquarters.

Interviewer: Yeah, did, you mentioned the smell, was it the Germans were 
out of supplies completely at that point.  Were the Germans out of 
supplies in Cherbourg?

Kleeman: Well, they, they knew they were finished there were with their 
back against the wall.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: But some of them must have escaped with their boats.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: They had no airport there but there, some of them must of come 
out.

Interviewer: Hitler declared Cherbourg a fortress city, he said it was to 
fight to the last-

Kleeman: Cherbourg was a fortress, the harbor was fortified, 
practically impossible to break into.

Interviewer: Yeah.

KLeeman: They took them a few days to blow up certain things at the 
harbor.

Interviewer: Right.

Kleeman: And the American ships were waiting outside to come in.

Interviewer: Yeah.  Were they able to come in?

Kleeman: Well as soon as it was cleared enough that they could dock and 
unload there equipment and everything, yeah.

Interviewer: Because the Germans were in the Harbor.

Kleeman: Yeah, that was most important to conquer the harbor because of 
the, the Americans needed those big [?] to come in tanks and everything.

Interviewer: They needed the oil.

Kleeman: They couldn’t unload them on the beach.

Interviewer: During the-

Kleeman: It was all planned.

Interviewer: Yeah.  During the push up to Cherbourg, what was morale like 
in the 4th division?  How was, how, how did the soldiers feel.

Kleeman: Well they felt good, it was, it was a salvation that you had 
reached it, and you were, but didn’t take what one day the other troops 
were turned around and were put back near the beach where the fighting was 
taking place, because they still didn’t have enough men.

Interviewer Yeah.

Kleeman: So they were using the same troops that went into Cherbourg to 
use the other way towards St. Lo.

Interviewer: So they were still fighting towards St. Lo then.  What was 
the feeling about the British, did everyone feel the British were doing 
their part or?

Kleeman: Well we didn’t any contact with the British then, they were way 
over, a hundred miles away in their own area, they used to say they stop 
in the afternoon to drink tea.  They had that reputation.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: You don’t know if they did but-

Interviewer: No, but you read accounts of American soldiers began to feel 
very bitter about the British.

Kleeman: Well that’s mental, they did a good job.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: They didn’t have the power of the Americans had but they didn’t 
have the quantity either.

Interviewer: What about-

Kleeman: They only had one beach.

Interviewer: The Canadians had the other too.

Kleeman: Yeah Canadians had one and the British had one too.

Interviewer: What about the French at this?

Kleeman: The French we didn’t hear much the first, first two, up to 
Cherbourg we didn’t hear anything about the French.

Interviewer: Not the French citizens the people themselves or?

Kleeman: No, no, there was no, no, no talk about French soldiers.

Interviewer: What about French civilians?

Kleeman: French Civilians…they were alright, they were, they didn’t know 
what was going on.

Interviewer: Right.  Did you ever see any instances of punishing 
collaborators?

Kleeman: Not any, up to the Cherbourg area.

Interviewer: Not yet.

Kleeman: We didn’t see anything.

Interviewer: Okay.

Kleeman: Actually that part of Normandy was not part of France, it was 
like a little country of by themselves, they were small farmers they made 
dairy they made the best cheese in France, they made the best cognac and 
the best [?].  They were leading their own lives.

Interviewer: Was there a fear amongst the soldiers that it was taking too 
long?  Fighting from one hedgerow to the next?

Kleeman: That was the worst warfare you could have run into.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: You, you didn’t know on one side what’s behind it, what’s on the 
other side.  Couldn’t, you couldn’t look in, you couldn’t climb up you, 
you couldn’t…was miserable, they were throwing hand grenades over, but 
didn’t even know if there were soldiers there or not.  Was miserable till 
they find the tanks that could punch a hole in.

Interviewer: Well that’s what’s happening during the fight for St. Lo in 
Cherbourg is that the tanks are coming.

Kleeman: Yeah, the hedgerows were those around St. Lo all over.

Interviewer: Their building the Third Army.

Kleeman: Yeah, yeah.  Very bad, very bad.

Interviewer: And you mentioned of course, when we were talking about 
Operation Cobra that was after St. Lo. Operation Cobra.  You had 
mentioned Operation Cobra.

Kleeman: Cobra?

Interviewer: Cobra.  The push out of the hedgerows.

Kleeman: Oh, the, the, when Patton was turned loose, yeah.  Yeah, that 
opened it up, that, Patton’s tank didn’t worry about Hedgerows anymore it 
was flat country by the time he was released to go.

Interviewer: But before he’s released you guys had to break through the 
last of it.

Kleeman: Yeah, before he released he wasn’t, he wasn’t fighting much till 
he was allowed to move out.

Interviewer: What happened to break him out?  What did you have to do to 
break him out?  What happened to break him out?

Kleeman: What happened?

Interviewer: To break him out?

Kleeman: Well, they let him loose after St. Lo, he started moving, once 
he was moving he was on a run.

Interviewer: Well what about the plans to break through to Avranche and 
then to use the bombers to open the door? We’ve talked about this.

Kleeman: Say it again.

Interviewer: With Leslie McNair.  You were near Leslie McNair.

Kleeman: The, what?

Interviewer: Ah, hold on. I have to write this.

Kleeman: I give you paper.

[Recording pauses then resumes]

Kleeman: Drew a map here, of the area. St. Lo.

Interviewer: Yeah.  Cherbourg.

Kleeman: Right, oh you very good, you could have been there, yeah.

Interviewer: Where was, where were you on this.

Kleeman: Behind here is, you ever hear of Mont Saint Michael?

Interviewer: Mont San Michaele yeah.

KLeeman: Yeah, that’s right in here.  Yeah!

Interviewer: So where were you?

Kleeman: All over.

Interviewer: Well, when this is begins.

Kleeman: You want to know where I was?

Interviewer: Sure.

Kleeman: I’ll tell you where I was.

Interviewer: Okay.

[recording pauses and resumes]

Kleeman: I’ll give you a diary to take home.

Interviewer: Oh my goodness!

Kleeman: What?

Interviewer: Oh goodness.  Where did you get this?

Kleeman: That was kept in the division and they sent the one in charge, 
when he’s eighty his wife sent it to me, he can’t read anymore.  They 
sent me the copy.

Interviewer: This is a full after, full.

Kleeman: Total War.
	
Interviewer: Yeah.

Kleeman: In France-

Interviewer: It’s a war diary.

Kleeman: -and Germany.  I’ll give you a copy.

Interviewer: Captain [?] and Corporal Kleeman visit the rear echelon at-

Kleeman: It allowed now to give it away the first, I would have shot if 
were have given it to you on D-Day.

Interviewer: I’ll make sure they don’t, we don’t tell anybody.

Kleeman: Wait, I’ll get you a copy.  Oh! I didn’t steal it.

[recording pauses and resumes]

Interviewer: For the record this is a facsimile copy of the G5 diary from 
headquarter, of the fourth infantry division.  It’s the fourth infantry 
division war diary.

Kleeman: I think you as a history prof-

[recording pauses and resumes]

Kleeman: The letters I used to get.

Interviewer: Oi, yeah. Wow.

Kleeman: They all loved me they all, took care of me.

Interviewer: These are the onion skins…and that’s a partial…kay.

Kleeman: Be careful that’s, that’s a complete…

Interviewer: Yeah this a complete copy.  For records this is a photo copy 
of the G5 diary, headquarters fourth infantry division.  Let me return to 
you this one.

Kleeman: Add this.

Interviewer: Additional materials, from October, and a pair of photos in, 
in, [?] forty-five.  Yeah I’ll certainly take this.  We’ll have this 
scanned, and [?] and put on.

Kleeman: These are extra pages, I guess you have to add them right, or I 
don’t know what-

Interviewer: We’ll take a look at them and see.  Let’s call it right here, 
let’s call this a session.

Kleeman: I tell you what, if you want the original take and make yourself 
a copy and and then you give it back.

Interviewer: Yeah, we’ll bring the originals back, cause these would be 
better for, these will be better for scanning.

Kleeman: Yeah, I said, I’ll give you a break.

Interviewer: Let’s take a-

[RECORDING ENDS]

End of Tape 03 of 05

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